One of the most successful groups of all time, Led Zeppelin has often been taken to task for using the work of other artists without citing the source, particularly blues artists. Critics have also drawn attention to Zep’s use of the work of folk and rock artists, as well. This raises an interesting question: when is an artist’s work original and when it is plagiarism? Opinion is divided on Led Zeppelin’s relationship to their influences. On one side are those who express the attitude that Led Zeppelin are simply music thieves. On the website Perfect Sound Forever Will Shade refers to Jimmy Page and company as “Thieving Magpies,” and cites several instances where Led Zeppelin’s records bear a strong resemblance to earlier recordings. According to Short, that Led Zeppelin released these records without proper songwriting credits amounts to outright theft. This sentiment is echoed by rock critic Richard Meltzer, who contends “there is NOTHING original” about Led Zeppelin, but this sort of hyperbole adds little to the discussion of ensuring proper acknowledgement and compensation for creative work.
On the other side are Led Zeppelin’s defenders, such as Chris Welch, author of Led Zeppelin: Dazed and Confused – The Stories Behind Every Song
Allegations of plagiarism against Led Zeppelin have been around since the early days of the band, but the internet has become an echo chamber for misinformation on this issue. My main purpose in writing “Led Zeppelin: Plagiarism?” was that I wanted to put any and all claims of plagiarism against Led Zeppelin’s music to the test. I listened to the tracks that Led Zeppelin was accused of stealing from and tried to make an impartial assessment of whether or not Led Zeppelin’s music constituted original work. I tried to identify those instances where they borrowed heavily enough from their influences to warrant crediting the source. My general conclusion was that Led Zeppelin drew on an eclectic array of sources to produce a large body of original and vital music, but that in several instances they were so close to their influence that they should have given them songwriting credit. Led Zeppelin did, in fact, give credit where credit was due for some tracks (“You Shook Me”, “I Can’t Quit You Baby”, “When the Levee Breaks”, and a half-hearted attempt with “Boogie with Stu”), but not in all cases. To my ears, 13 of Led Zeppelin’s songs should have some sort of songwriting credit change (that is, eight in addition to the five that have already been changed due to the threat of legal action). Because Led Zeppelin almost always brought a substantial amount of originality to their work, in most cases it would be fair to simply add the influence’s name to Led Zeppelin’s original credits, but “Dazed and Confused” (original by Jake Holmes) and “Boogie with Stu” (“Ooh My Head” by Ritchie Valens) are merely cover versions and the songwriting credits should be changed entirely to reflect that. The list below contains the instances where songwriting credits should be changed, and those that have already been changed on recent Led Zeppelin reissues are marked with an asterisk.
| Led Zeppelin Title | Year | Credit due to | Title | Year | Span | |
| Babe, I’m Gonna Leave You | 1969 | Anne Bredon | Babe, I’m Gonna Leave You | 1960 | x | 9 |
| Dazed and Confused | 1969 | Jake Holmes | Dazed and Confused | 1967 | x | 2 |
| Black Mountain Side | 1969 | Bert jansch | Blackwaterside | 1966 | 3 | |
| How Many More Times | 1969 | Howlin’ Wolf | No Place to Go | 1959 | 10 | |
| How Many More Times | 1969 | The Yardbirds | Smokestack Lightnin’ | 1965 | 4 | |
| Whole Lotta Love | 1969 | Willie Dixon | You Need Love | 1962 | x | 7 |
| The Lemon Song | 1969 | Howlin’ Wolf | Killing Floor | 1966 | x | 3 |
| Bring It On Home | 1970 | Sonny Boy Williamson | Bring It On Home | 1963 | x | 7 |
| Hats Off to (Roy) Harper | 1970 | Bukka White | Shake ‘Em On Down | 1937 | 33 | |
| Hats Off to (Roy) Harper | 1970 | Oscar Woods | The Lone Wolf Blues | 1936 | 34 | |
| Since I’ve Been loving You | 1970 | Moby Grape | Never | 1968 | 2 | |
| Stairway to Heaven | 1971 | Spirit | Taurus | 1968 | 3 | |
| Custard Pie | 1975 | Sleepy John Estes | Drop Down Mama | 1935 | 40 | |
| Custard Pie | 1975 | Blind Boy Fuller | I Want Some of Your Pie | 1940 | 35 | |
| In My Time of Dying | 1975 | Josh White | Jesus Gonna Make Up My Dying Bed | 1933 | 42 | |
| Boogie With Stu | 1975 | Ritchie Valens | Ooh My Head | 1959 | 16 | |
| x – Songwriting credits have been changed on recent Led Zeppelin reissues | ||||||
The cover story for the April/May, 2010, issue of Blues Matters magazine showed a picture of Led Zeppelin above the Jimmy Page quote, “It was always the blues.” In a magazine devoted to the blues, I was expecting to find an article about Led Zeppelin’s debt to the blues, particularly after reading the teaser on the table of contents page next to a graphic that reads “The Roots of Led Zeppelin,”
The article by Richard Thomas, however, was just a brief overview of Led Zeppelin’s career with little information about their influences. The above quote appeared at the end of the article, probably because it was an afterthought, not to mention that it’s almost entirely wrong. I take issue with this statement on a number of points. First of all, the idea that “Dazed and Confused” “borrows heavily from Howlin’ Wolf” is absurd. If you’re going to state that an artist’s work is not original, at least get the source right. Poor Jake Holmes. He wrote one of the most instantly recognizable, iconic songs of his time, but he would seem to be forever doomed to obscurity. And second, “ancient blues riffs”? Even if you allow for poetic license or just write off this sort of language as hyperbole, this statement is way off the mark. The column on the right on the table above shows the number of years between the original recording and Led Zeppelin’s release. In most cases, Led Zeppelin was drawing on recent music, and that includes many of their blues influences. Muddy Waters’s recording of “You Need Love” was released only seven years before “Whole Lotta Love.” Several of these songs did indeed originate before World War II, but here’s the interesting thing: Led Zeppelin’s records are older now than the blues records they were listening to when the band was formed in the late 1960s. Does that make Led Zeppelin’s riffs “ancient”? And third, most of Led Zeppelin’s excessive borrowing from the blues was in Robert Plant’s lyrics and not Jimmy Page’s riffs, such as “Whole Lotta Love”. Jimmy Page’s thefts tended to come from contemporary rock and folk performers.
Led Zeppelin certainly owes a debt to the blues, but so much misinformation has been repeated as true that it’s important to separate fact from fiction. Allegations have been repeated as fact either with no supporting evidence or delivered with little critical restraint, such as Howard Stern’s exercise in outrage. The most evenhanded observation about this issue came recently from a rather odd source. Malcolm Gladwell‘s book What the Dog Saw includes a chapter entitled “Something Borrowed: Should a Charge of Plagiarism Ruin Your Life?” After listing a number of examples where one artist borrowed from another, Gladwell pointed out that while allowing artists to simply copy another’s work “inhibited true creativity… it was equally dangerous to be overly vigilant in policing creative expression, because if Led Zeppelin hadn’t been free to mine the blues for inspiration, we wouldn’t have got ‘Whole Lotta Love’….” Gladwell drew a distinction between borrowing that is transformative and borrowing that is derivative. For all the borrowing that Led Zeppelin did, they were certainly transformative artists.
Actually, Jimmy Page was playing Dazed and Confused before Led Zeppelin. There’s a semi-bootleg album called “Live Yardbirds Featuring Jimmy Page” recorded March 30, 1968, though not released until 1971 to take advantage of Zeppelin’s popularity. It has a song called “I’m Confused” which is obviously Dazed and Confused. The record company released it without Page’s authorization, and withdrew it after Page complained. The recording date reduces the time lag after Holmes’s recording to only a year. Obviously Plant had nothing to do with this one! As a side note, the present Yardbirds lineup still plays the song. Last time I saw them, Jim McCarty introduced the song by mentioning that “Jimmy also recorded this song with his other band”.
Doesn’t mean he had the copyright! Eric Clapton also played guitar for The Yardbirds! In fact, “Tangerine” is really,”Knowing That I’m Losing You” , by The Yardbirds. Jimmy Page blatantly plagiarized/stole from EVERYONE, sometimes, more than once or even twice! (Ex’s. Willie Dixon’s, “You Shook Me”, “I Can’t Quit You, Baby” & “You Need Love” (“Whole Lotta Love”). Robert Johnson’s, “Traveling Riverside Blues”, “squeeze my lemon…” . Howlin’Wolf , “How Many More Years”, “Killin Floor” & Bert Jansch, “Black WATERside Blues”, “The Waggoner’s Lad”)
Mega thieves Page & Plant stole “Dazed & Confused” WORD for WORD… NOTE for NOTE — from Jake Holmes. They owe Holmes in the area of 10 to 15 million dollars, no doubt about it. What is wrong with Mr. Holmes, he waited for 30 years to sue those thieves? Incredible.
Muddy & the tough blues guys probably threatened to kick their asses big time if they didnt pay up — so they did, being thieving cowards. And their fat boy manager would have been flattened by those blues guys and their posse stopping by the office for a little chat. And well they should have too.
That entire 1st record was stolen material except 2 tracks. And Page never paid the piper… of course. I can’t even listen to Zep anymore as it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, thinking about those guys who should be multi millionaires and were so badly ripped off by guys that were/are so, so, so rich, (Page is worth a Billion at least) that the money they shoulda paid out in royalties would be pennies to them. So it’s the unbelievable GREED of Page — he’s a damn criminal. But Plant should know better. Mr Good-Vibes, God and Love… Yeah right, how about paying those artists you ripped off pal… and then get good with God. That sort of thing ruins lives.
Check out Hendrix’s 2 sidemen in the original Experience… Noel and Mitch — Jimi allowed that thief tour manager Mike Jeffries to steal ALL their royalties… All of them. Jimi could have stopped that if he had given a damn. Hopefully Chad the real manager got paid! He probably did. Never talked about it.
And the Band — Robertson stole almost ALL royalties on songs Levon and the other guys co-wrote around the kitchen table. Hey — especially Levon. Like Robertson knows anything about Dixie, and relatives down south! No sir. They all died in terrible circumstances with Robertson STILL moaning about how innocent he is. Bullshit! He should be in prison. Look at the way all those ripped off guys dies… in terrible shape. It ain’t right. It just ain’t right.
Like it or not Zeps versions are a way more spicy and popular than the original. I v youtubed most of the list yet still love the Zeps version.
Let the plagiarism on the court room and the Zeps on your stereo
Recalling FIFA theme of Shakira years after Zep era
Exactly………………………………………….
I notice your list doesn’t include the sings “borrowed” from Blind Willie Johnson, arguably the greatest ever gospel blues singer/guitarist. Listen to his original recordings of “Jesus gonna make up my dying bed” (renamed In my time of dying by Led Zep) & “Nobody’s fault but mine”, both recorded in the 1920’s.
Led Zep settled a plagiarism suit out of court & paid BWJ a pittance.
Yeh its funny to see on youtube ,WEA(Atlantic Records) removing Zep songs for copyright violations !!!!All the blues artists Zep ripped off couldve said the same thing 40 years ago!!
Another thing how could could Ahmet the head of the ATLANTIC REC.biggest blues/r&b label in usa never hear Zep recycle and take credit for songs he had to have heard years before Zep was on Atlantic???
Well true BWJ did early versions of these 100 year old songs ,but did he copyright the songs ?? Both are old enough to be considered traditional folk songs ,reworded and recorded by many artists in various versions.(Dylan,Nina Simone,Sister Rosetta )At least their publishing companies labeled it traditional,unlike Page/Plant..
I keep telling everyone Rock n Roll from Zep 4 is recycled train kept a rollin too……..
One rift “borrowed” is an oops. A pattern of stolen material makes this overhyped cover band a bunch of plagiarizing thieves. Millions of dollars these skanks made off unknowns, who got zip.
Greatest self-declared rock band is just another corp pimp in the sound realm. Even at that, always thought they were blah…
agreed had JPJ writen Taurus song he would have received maybe one quarter song credit and therefore one quarter of the money generated by Stairway to Heaven. I mainly blame Atlantic records.
Damn straight!
Exactly!
yep, and another one is Lead Belly’s “Gallis Pole” that was ripped off into “Gallows Pole.” Zeps music still sounds awesome to me, but I don’t give as much credit to the creativity of Page/Plant, especially Plant.
Fred Gerlach originally composed, “Gallow’s Pole”.
“Gallows Pole” actually is a centuries-old traditional folk song that has been known as “The Maid Freed from the Gallows” and “The Prickly Bush,” as well as by native-language titles in Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, Lithuania, Hungary, Italy, Iceland, Russia, Slovenia …. Lead Belly certainly changed the song’s evolutionary course in the 1930s with his “In the Shadow of the Gallows Pole” album featuring “The Gallis Pole.” In the 1960s, musicians including Judy Collins, Bob Dylan, and Nic Jones came up with various iterations, but Page picked Fred Gerlach’s song to arrange, though he and Plant credited that composition, as well as “Hats off to Roy Harper,” as Traditional.
Thank you. That’s true – they borrowed from this one, as well as many others. It is very sad they didn’t credit those fantastic fathers of blues. If they had done so, those would have gained much more popularity they truly deserved rather than being overshadowed by LZ…
I’m wondering if the author of this article has ever heard both versions of “Dazed and Confused” They are absolutely NOT the same song
they r the same song. page made a few alterations & kept evolving it. so it’s a different electrified version, but still the same song.
They’re not even close to the same song
If they’re not even close to the same song why do they both have the same name.. why is Jake Holmes listed on the credits and why do they both sound exactly the same?
Wait…what?? I’m wondering if you’ve ever heard the original. I’m also wondering if you’ve heard the Yardbirds live cover of the original, featuring Jimmy Page on guitar.
yes they are the same song,just different lyrics
The song is very VERY similar, so much so that when Jake Holmes sued Jimmy Page quickly paid him off. The song might not be the exact song but god damn it is clearly plagiarized.
You either need to understand what plagiarism is or you need to understand what music is
Thank you! Omg! She needs to listen to Dixon’s, “You Shook Me” or “I Can’t Quit You, Baby” & then Led Zeppelin’s versions immediately afterwards if she doesn’t think “Dazed & Confused” sounds exactly like Zep’s versions. No difference between them @ all!
You realize that Dixon was credited on both of the tunes you mention, right?
The fact that “Joseph Saint” links to the song to allow the listener to decide for themselves makes your snarky comment totally unnecessary. By “plagiarism” did you think he meant a legal standard, academic standard, or just colloquial use of the word? Do you even know? Do you understand what the word “understand” means?
Dude, clearly the kid has no knowledge of the group & it’s history. I suggest that he reads, “Hammer of the Gods” by Steven Davis. Or of the origins of music either. I mean in the 1st place , the band’s name is due to a conversation between Page & late , The Who, drummer Keith Moon who heard of the plans that PAGE had for his band, “The New Yardbirds* & laughed hysterically saying, “now, THAT’S gonna go over like a lead balloon!” So we’re talking about a band who dropped the”a” out of their name, “bc stupid Americans are going to pronounce it LEED Zeppelin”. This is a band who blatantly stole 4xs from Willie Dixon the man who created Muddy Waters the impetus for the formation of The Rolling mfg Stones & the entire Mississippi Delta region of the bkack bluesmen who created the “classic rock genre”. Robert Johnson’s, “Travelling Riverside Blues” to Memphis Minnie’s, “When the Levee Breaks” to Howlin’Wolf’s “How Many More Years” & “Killin Floor” … Page where is the Mississippi Delta region? Us, “stupid Americans do not appreciate your mediocre at best guitar skills (his violin bow is also plagiarized) & taking our money only to find out that you used one of our states to plagiarize from…. Eventually, we’d figure it out you little narcissistic fuck
You do know Zeppelin settled out of court with Dixon, right? And what if Taurus lifted a Dixon song ya really think Dixon would have gone after them? It’s about the Benjamins and Taurus had none!
And please stop pissing in the wind if you think Page has mediocre skills. Real musicians know his status in the rock world and some dumb broad like you can bitch and moan and won’t change a fuck of thing!
I’m confused by Jake Holmes has the same structure, same ending, same guitar riff, same chords, same melody line. Only some of the lyrics are different, (although a similar style). http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/994/ for more details. I do a lecture on this subject every year. Rock’n’roll starts with you keep me knocking, Stairway to Heaven’s chords are Spirit by Taurus, there are many examples. Some pieces credited in the past to others following being sued, are now credited to Zep, probably because the suit only included records, not CDs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deOPtlcLdHM
Actually, Jimmy Page did Ice Cream Dreams with Cartoone as guest musician. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFdjZdvnO5E
He did this tune with Cartoone before hearing Taurus’ Spirit.
They aren’t even the same anyway.
Taurus Am Am7 Amm7 Am6 Am D Am G
Stairway Am Am7 Amm7 D F G Am F E
Davy Graham Cry Me A River from 1959 has similar sounds, which predates both of those tunes.
“Cry Me A River”, written in 1953 by Arthur Hamilton, so that tune goes back even earlier.
In this case Stariway to Heaven was not a ripoff of Spirit.
They ARE ABSOLUTELY the same song. Page changed the arrangement slightly – but the melody, the guitar pattern, the way the song builds, the very opening words are “Dazed and confused” – what more do you want? The very last example of Led Zep’s “borrowing” you should defend is this one. Page sheepishly revised the credits as, “Written by Jimmy Page, inspired by Jake Holmes” on 2012’s ‘Celebration Day’ . That is disingenuous tripe and a classic example of Page’s ego getting the better of him. Jake Holmes basically wrote that bloody song.
I would clarify that I wrote the above post in response to Dawna McCoy’s insistence that “they are absolutely NOT the same song.” How my post ended up presented below ruperttill’s post I don’t know.
In this in this one particular case, I have to give Page a pass, because copyright restrictions are very tight. For example all Beatles songs are credited to band members in alphabetical order and McCarthy once proposed the order be changed to reflect his first on songs he “really” wrote and Lennon be first on songs he actually wrote, and he was willing to offer evidence to prove the authorship. A good solution, but record company lawyers replied “absolutely not.” Even just changing the order of the names would provide legal grounds to lose rights all together.
But, likewise, the court decision on Taurus don’t mean much when talking about Led Zep (and their records labels’) failure to give credit where credit was due. Also “blues musicians stole from each other all the time” isn’t a legitimate defense for Led Zep- the traditional bluesmen had no faith in discriminatory US courts and would often turn to violence and even murder when their rivals stole songs and/or lyrics. Should we then declare open season on Page’s butt “because bluesmen did it all the time?”
Travelling Riverside Blues by Robert Johnson… anyone
not a plagiarization. it was written as a tribute to johnson. the music is zeppelin’s & bears no resemblence to johnson’s song of the same title.
Same lyrics though
Omg! Dude clearly you have never heard the song. It is exactly the same, I can let you hear my copy of Robert Johnson’s Travelling Riverside Blues if you want?;
And who did Johnson lift the song from? Plagiarism was rampant in the jazz and blues era and the only winners were the Jewish managers who never gave the artists their recording rights. See Chess Records
Dude, you clearly have never even listened to Robert Johnson’s Travelling Riverside Blues… Exactly the same! I have a copy of Robert Johnson’s original if you want me to send it to you? If it was a tribute then, ytf did Page put written by Page & Plant or Bonham bc he always made one of them his fall guy. He’s a narcissistic mediocre guitar player at best. Unoriginal & arrogant and audacious
Yes!! I didnt see that in the article. These guys are the most talented rip off artists ever!!!
Missing the point a bit. Originality is exactly that and much of Zep’s work is plagiarised, inspired or ‘borrowed’ from earlier works. Arguing about the exactness of the reproduction isn’t the point. When Fred Wedlock (Folk singer) parodied ‘Ode to a Nightingale’ with his cider eulogy he wasn’t being hailed as a creative genius (although he probably was).
Nicking that beautiful riff from Taurus might be OK for a pub band but when people start noticing it and paying good money to listen to it – you either have a crisis of conscience at some point or choose instead to be a ****
World’s greatest cover band!! Lol!
They are LOL’ing to the tune of $800mm! Shame you wear a name tag to work!
See my post above
Yes indeed! Important one also bc the lyrics to ”The Lemon Song” are not Led Zeppelin’s. The rise & fall of their career eerily parallels that of the legendary 1920’s Mississippi Delta bluesman, Robert Johnson. (“Hammer Of The God’s” by Stephen Davis)
I am a life long Led Zeppelin fan and musician, and I have been very taken back by all of this, because i feel like music should be created as original or simply credited as a re-make. If someone took my song and changed it up a little and never gave credit, i would fight until MY time of dying to receive credit for the original creation. Other artists created the songs and then Zeppelin made millions off them. Zep will always be on my playlist, but i have come to the conclusion that they were indeed hacks, which has been very upsetting.
LZ songs are not hacks. If you listen to all the songs that “they” claim LZ copied, you will very well notice the difference in every song. They are the best examples of what an “influence” is. LZ openly claims that they took influence from Blues. Look at all the brilliant songs that they made by just taking an influence. All those challenging LZ music, go listen to those songs which you think are the “original” ones and lets see how repeatedly you play it
I have and I listen to them more often than Led Zepplin.
Lol clearly in denial. Listen i was a huge LZ fan myself but lets call a spade a spade
I think some people feel if its not exactly the same then its not stealing. The thing about art and creativity is people put a lot of effort into innovating a concept or idea. I think it might be easier to people with creativity or musicians to understand why what LZ did was unfair because people put a lot of emotion and effort into their work, only to see some one else take it and almost effortlessly gain an incredible boost of fame and respect for it.
A lot of what you say here is very true. However, I don’t think you’re taking into consideration all of what the ‘creative process’ entails. Bottom line is: There’s no such thing as an artwork that is COMPLETELY original … other than the very first ‘artwork’ created: the Universe, if you will. Everything else is some sort of derivative of the original. If you think about it, this makes sense. If a song were ACTUALLY original, or a painting or work of literature for that matter, NO ONE would ‘get it.’ Our brains aren’t complex enough to interpret something that doesn’t have immediately-relatable aspects to it already. The TRUE artist must continually deal with this conundrum, try to be original enough to interest people but not too obscure to never have anyone pay attention to anything they have to say. I’d like, at this point, to refer to a quote by poet Paul Valery: “The value of men’s work is not in the works themselves but in their later development by others.” To say Led Zeppelin didn’t take from other artists is false. But it’s also false to say that their recordings didn’t ‘transcend’ the originals, that is, build upon them, even ‘improve’ them. Keep in mind, I’m not letting artists who take what other artists have made and claim it as their own off the hook — credit should be given where credit is due — I’m simply saying the overall issue here is much more complex than most people are willing to admit, like much of what we encounter in this “crazy thing called Life” (credit for this last quote: Prince — though whether or not he was the first to say such a thing is highly unlikely … but it’s where I first heard it).
I agree 100%…..No one would give 2 shits if Zepplin had not sung the words and played the music together and made it worth money….everyone takes from everyone since the beginning of time. Are you people actually suggesting that any artist was not influenced or “took” from another??? You have no idea where so-and-so got so-and-so words or notes from the beginning of making sounds into what we call music. What Zep OWES to another artist can be decided by the COURTS, and the ARTISTS involved. I love listening to their “recordings” or “plagiarism” and that is what matters to me. I have done the research and listened to the songs that have been involved in the disputes. I love so much of it, but in most cases I will prefer Zep’s version (if you will). I love Aretha Franklin….if someone else sings “Chain of Fools” or “Respect” (like Jennifer Hudson) and gives CREDIT or MONEY to Aretha’s estate or whoever wrote the dam song, it will still not be Aretha to me. Its that thing that you can’t put a finger on that makes you say “I want to listen to that person (or band) sing/play that song”
Listen to Zepplin or don’t ….but geez!!!!!
i agree 100percent
According to you.. every song is stolen.. If someone uses the Words love you in a song then its stolen, they use the word Life in a song its stolen. so we Just go and play guitar.. but wait.. If i play Dm Bb C.. Oh i have stolen a Dm Chord progression.
Get a handle on your wits and enjoy the great Music
Plagiarists or not they composed enough awesome original tunes (“Kashmir” for example) to remain my favourite band. Don’t agree? Think I’m a fool? Your problem, not mine.
Oh I was so let down … Over & over & over again. Their DEBUT LP Led Zeppelin I was correct…Out of the 9 tracks only 1 song was originally composed by the band. Get it. …? Lex Zeppelin I (one) Lmao!
Let’s take a step back off the ledge here. Zep was/is fantastic. Possibly the best group of 4 musicians ever in one band.
As for the ‘thievery’, Plant has slyly said in intervews that there was some of that going on. However, I think Zep gets a really bad rap on this subject. Lots of people like to point to Babe I’m Gonna Leave you. Well, for those that don’t really look into the subject beyond a superficial level, you will know that Joan Baez actually miscreditied the song also. And look into Willie Dixon’s record of lifting his songs from other blues artists.
The fact of the matter is that we are using a great deal of hindsight and 40+ years of copyright law and precedent to make modern assersions about these artists and their intentions. The reality is that, in those days, it was basically the wild west as it relates to this subject. There was tons of music out there labeled as tranditional or folk so they were used over and over again by all artists. I think it’s extremely unfair to use today’s hindsight to disparage a band that arugably changed music as much as The Beatles.
Zep never made any bones about how they loved and revered the blues. So to try and infer some sort of ill will or malice by them I think is really missing the mark.
And let’s not forget, most of these old blues guys would have died basically unknown and pennyless had it not been for the brits ‘making them famous’. Some will say that’s not an excuse to ‘steal’, but I genuinely don’t believe there was every any intention to ‘steal’ people’s music.
Again, if you want to hold Zep to this standard and call them something along the lines of the greatest cover band of all time or something even worse, go study the history of other artists and how much this has gone on. Even w/ the folks Zep supposedly stole from!
So much this… And there’s a lot of willful ignorance from those so appalled and dismissive about all the great music LZ made without any direct, tangible influence or a lift from other’s works.
Guys, with all due respect, this is bullshit. Everybody was “stealing” from everybody all the time. The black blues guys were stealing from each other. And by the way, what gives them preference simply because they were old and black? Wise the fuck up and give up the ghost. You’re insufficiently informed. And fuck the lawyers because all they’re doing is trying to descend on a $$$ making opportunity. Peace out.
There is one difference between Zep and other bands.
Stones, Clapton etc. all borrowed licks and riffs from the masters, but they credited the original artists. Look at the back of Rolling Stones’ first album: The songs are credited to all the old blues masters. Only one song is credited Jagger/Richards. Zep stole other artists material and never credited them – and made a fortune. That’s theft.
I couldn’t agree more. Just give credit where credit is due.
I agree and “those black dudes” just sounds so callous and dismissive. “Those black dudes” often led horrendous, depressing lives – marred by inhumane racism. Even if they couldn’t enjoy the royalties, their descendents could have.
You mention the Stones without noting Faithfull’s Sister Morphine, be serious
First, apologies for use of the eff word. I don’t care how incensed I was at the time. Very sorry.
I have trouble with the word ‘theft’. I agree that in those cases where they did not credit the black blues guys they were 100% guilty of a moral wrong. But whether it’s actual legal thievery I believe is still a stretch. Perhaps it’s a matter of intent. I do not believe that Page/Plant sat down with the sheets for ‘Dazed and Confused’, e.g., and Plant turned to Page and said “see here we can just lift this right here.” and then proceeded to copy the song measure for measure. And then there’s the whole atmosphere of the time when everyone was “stealing” from everyone including the black blues guys from each other. Be that as it may, the Stones were certainly superior in this regard; I believe Zep just blew the permission process off probably out of haste and ignorance. Legal thievery? Not sure, although I do see Zep has compensated the authors quite amply.
Zep paid pennies to the authors ,long after they died broke in a rest hom
I love how no one mentions possibly there most obvious rip off which im guessing is because very few people know the song they ripped off because its from a very underrated legendary Canadian Band. Anyways, listen to “Weeping Widow” by April Wine & Then listen to “No Quarter” By Zeppelin and judge for yourself. to me its so blatant, April Wine is my favourite band of all time and ive always said they are like the canadian led zeppelin, maybe plant/page thought the same thing and could get away with it at the time
Joey, I think you are way off base with the Weeping Widow/No Quarter allegation. I listened to them and they sound nothing alike! Not only that, they were released the same year (1973)!
No Quarter was recorded early 72 and released March 73. Weeping Window is Nov 73. So they probably had heard No Quarter by then and lifted it.
No Quarter was on Physical Graffiti released in March 1973. Weeping Widow was on Electric Jewels released in November 1973. So maybe the influence was the reverse.
No Quarter was on Houses of the Holy recorded in 72 and what in the name of Bo Diddley leads anyone to think it in any way resembles Weeping Widow?
I don’t think these two songs have anything in common save a time signature.
Add another vote for the “What are you kidding?” side of the argument.
No theremin!
If there’s no theremin, it’s not “No Quarter.”
End of story.
Sorry, but….
A) The two songs sound NOTHING alike.
B) No Quarter was written first.
I think with all this plagiarism stuff going on people forget all the great songs they actually wrote (good times bad times, immagrent song, rock n roll, black dog, over the hills and far away etc..) there were only a couple of songs that were totally ripped off and these are obvious but the comparisons people are making are obssured.
Thank u some one with sense
Stairway to heaven in its musical construction is not at the same as Spirits song. Also Custard Pie while related to the earlier versions is stand alone original. same with In My Time of Dying this music all is entirely different. These three should be taken of the list
George Harrison was sued for My Sweet Lord by the authors of Hes So Fine ,which sound nothing alike,nor have any matching lyrics .
All due respect, if you think they are nothing alike, you are deaf.
All due respect, if you think the songs are alike, you should probably get a basic music course done
The chorus sounds exactly the same: “He’s so fine” and “My Sweet Lord” are the same notes and stress the same syllables when sung. To me it’s so obvious he copied it and I like George Harrison. John Lennon: “he walked right into that one”.
once is an oops. dozens of your tunes stolen, word for word and chord for chord? MILLIONS to these scam ZIPolin skanks, while true artists get zIP & starve as these corporate vultures don’t even toss them a few coppers or credit?
Pure garbage.
With all due respect the melody and chord progression of My Sweet Lord is EXACTLY like those of He’s So Fine!
They are chordally and rhythmically identical and even the melodies are very similar. George Harrison lost a lot of money over that blatant rip-off
I’m not so sure it’s a blatant rip-off. I think it’s more likely accidental. nothing in the lyrical content is the same. if chord changes are the basis of this rip-off then more than half of the blues songs ever written are a rip-off. George had one oops …barely.
They are absolute frauds. They stink and they suck. They have a few good songs, but who knows for sure if they didn’t rip them off somewhere; only page & plant know for sure. To me, they never were in the same league with the Beatles, Stones, Sabbath, Cream, The Who, Floyd and probably at least 10 other US & British bands even while stealing. In the end, probably now and certainly when they’re dead, the first thing people will remember upon hearing led zeppelin will be there plagiarism.
What utter garbage, if you have Nothing constructive to say don’t say it at all , the band’s you mentioned, are not even in the same league as Led Zeppelin, they will be remembered for being the greatest rock band the world has ever seen and will ever see , for the record excuse the pun, led did them songs justice.
They were never ” the greatest rock band the world has ever seen and will ever see” – they were actually pretty average. There were a lot of bands around in the early 70s who made them look (and sound) dreadful.
For example: I saw LZ on the same bill as Mountain, and Leslie West made Page look like a rank amateur. It wasn’t a one-off bad night – it was the same thing at the next two gigs as well!
Zep have been rumbled – they plagiarised and just simply stole songs from other people. Listening again to their discography, I noticed even more blatant rip-offs……
REALLY?!?! I agree only if by “not in the same league” you mean that LZ are minor-leaguers compared to those other bands. Otherwise, LZ couldn’t hold the Beatles’ jack-straps!
They did it well but they were out of order. No argument.
That’s what haters all over the world say… You all seem to care so bad about so many artists you didnt even know at first place, but hey,”why everyone seems to love Led Zeppelin and not my favorite band – let s call it w/e you want – so let us defame them a bit in legal terms, because we cant find any other flaw in music terms”
My point is this. Let s say that everything you say is correct. I bet you people are all so moral in your lives, that this surprise you right? IMO, as long as they pay anything illegal, they can keep doing this… If i can get on a bus without ticket and each time they catch me i can pay the fee, i see no reason why other people should cry about it…. Just do the same. Aw no wait, you (your bands) do the same thing, you just take “disability leave” so you pay less…or nothing.
My point for the less intelligent, everyone has been plagiarit. (Rolling stones, deep purple, lynyrd skynyrd, eric clapton and so on…) Your whole point , that makes you so “affective and caring people” is that they didnt give their credits to specific people. So better change the title in this tag and rename it : “LED ZEPPELIN:No Credits?” or something like that. Because even less intelligent people, will understand they were mere copycats.. and by this let me conclude with the “ironically” lyrics of the more “ironic” song remains the same.. :
“Hear my song. People won’t you listen now? Sing along.
You don’t know what you’re missing now.
Any little song that you know
Everything that’s small has to grow.
And it has to grow!”
I hope this will really make sense to you someday, and dont forget to be always grateful to those people that without them you wouldnt be able to know all these people you are fighting for their own rights and credits, at the first place.
Hmmm. OK. Just wondering if you actually took the time to read what I wrote.
I understand English is not your first language but just because you can afford to pay the fine doesn’t mean its ok to break the law .Stealing is stealing.
JAZZ: have you ever listened to a jazz program on the radio where they compare different versions by various artists of a jazz standard?
They do not even imagine NOT attributing properply the original authorship. Sometimes the musicians will tip their hat to previous version’s chords or cite a related tune.
In fact the real problem is in the level of musicianship of the musicians, and the level of musical knowledge of the listeners.
By the way, why was it so important for Plant to do up his hair, (literally) bear his chest and wear tight-pants?
Part of the scam was the macho posturing as they catered to the (now eternal) adolescent in many of us.
Recently, on BBC JImmy Page says in an interview about Stairway to ‘eaven that they were playing with great honesty and authenticity; what a theiving liar! On thing is to be a talented musiciam and another thing is to have original musical and lyrical ideas.
I think part of the lead riff in No Quarter is borrowed from Hendrix’ Machine Gun. Not worth a credit but it’s a main theme of the song. Jimi borrowed from Jeff Beck on In From the Storm so they all took license now and then!
I read the following on another website:-
‘There was only ONE original song on Led Zeppelin (1969)
ALL other songs were STOLEN. The album is essentially a cover album of blues and folk songs but the original artists and writers were not given credit. This whole album with the exception of Good Times Bad Times is blatant plagiarism.’
Although it is certainly true that Zeppelin could have been a bit more generous when crediting their ‘influences’, especially in later years, when the first album was being put together, two of the band were barely 20 years old. Even in their wildest dreams they couldn’t have imagined they would eventually go on to have the success they did. By putting their names to the songs they were probably thinking more about a new set of tyres on the old transit. As time went on, they just carried on doing the same thing.
How many people could say that when they were in their twenties they would have done any different – I couldn’t.
totally spot on
Zeppelin ripped off pretty much everyone!!
Okay yes, they should have given credits to those artists, but that does NOT mean that they are bad musicians, quite the opposite actually.
It seems that people are forgetting all of the other awesome songs that they wrote over the years and focusing on the ones that have flaws (credit wise), which is completely wrong to do.
Also it’s not like they were the only ones borrowing riffs and lyrics back then so calm down.
so if a lot of us steal stuff its ok?
@ sid —
I don’t think that’s the point Maia was making at all.
Maia’s saying you have to consider the context, and what was normal and normative for the discipline and for the times.
In both the folk and the blues realms, the concept of taking other artists’ songs and reinterpreting them — with loose attributions at best — was just how things were often done then.
The more scrupulous performers might have gone out of their way to provide the names of the original writers (when they were even known) — but most artists just played whatever.
For that matter, this tradition goes back hundreds of years into the classical world — check out Bach’s multiple-harpsichord concerti, all of which are basically transcriptions of Vivaldi violin concerti. Or try Charpentier’s Midnight Mass for Christmas, which is mostly a reworking of the ancient French folksong, “Joseph est Bien Marié.”
The music world was a whole different universe before the lawyers got involved.
And finally (and most important) as the OP points out, what Led Zep DID with all the old blues and R+B classics was to respin them into a whole new context, a completely different musical dialect (at least, and arguably a whole new language).
THAT ain’t plagiarism — and that WAS and IS genius.
Should LZ have credited the tunes’ originators — and paid them a share?
Sure.
But anyone trying to say that ALL they were doing was ripping off their predecessors just isn’t listening.
Well, then I think we need more plagiarism today. Maybe it will lead to better music. But seriously, I doubt any of those bands/writers could have done to theirs songs what zeppelin did. Legal matters aside.
Rodgers and Hammerstein (or anyone else for that matter) couldn’t dream of doing what Coltrane did to My Favorite Things, but it still says “Rodgers and Hammerstein” on the damn record.
zepp are outright fuggging thieves
Wasn’t going to say anything because it often boils down to lz fan vs non lz fan which isn’t the point. All I’ll say is I keep reading comments stating ‘all the bands were doing it, so relax’. Even if that were true, would it make it ok then? Seems a childish thing to say. ‘Well mom, bobby did it”. “If bobby jumped off of a bridge would you?” I wonder if Page had a grin on his face while being recorded playing the intro to stairway to riches
Anyone notice the similarity in keyboard riffs between Trampled Underfoot and Captain Beefheart’s Rock’n Roll’s Evil Dog?
Zeppelin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtkxPADQiSE
Beefheart
Every one listens to music of every genre and then when influenced create and design their own artistic interpretation and use chord progressions and add or take away to create their own masterpiece. Led Zeppelin’s talent is that all members got together at the right time in their lives to to create a mixture of rock blues sexual progression by one of the best vocalists in the known world and the top ten guitarist and one of the best percusssionist in his prime and the piano playing organ synthizer sound all came together to form the best rock band the world will ever know JUST MY OPINION Nicholas…
Wow. I’ve always loved Led Zeppelin when I was growing up. Some great memories. I feel so naive.. I somehow never knew about this. I worked as a writer in the television and film business for years. Ultimately, my work was plagiarized and I was dropped by my agency when I tried to fight the producers and studio – It ended my career. This kind of thing happens constantly in Hollywood by individuals thinking they’re entitled to creative works. Plagiarism comes at a very, very great cost. It so easy to side with the brand name and dismiss the lesser one. The producers that took my work never produced another followup hit. They tried several times until the studio stopped supporting them. As I read off the list of artist who had been victimized, I had to wonder about how their careers were cut short by the betrayal. When something like this happens, it just kills something inside of you. You can (and often do) have some great works in you, but the combination of being alienated by the business (and experience) often stifles the artist from ever functioning again on that level. It’s just evil, plain and simple. I’ve never thought about it this way, but the fans end up losing, too. all the amazing hits we might have missed out on from the list of artist above. How many greats did they have in them still that never got past their personal hell. I’ve came across a number of articles tonight since I discovered this.. many of the musicians in question struggled after it happened. Sad. Not a whole lot of solace comes from the belief that these people will someday be judged. I can’t imagine listening to Zeppelin, again. I couldn’t be more disappointed with the band.
Rob, thanks for putting a human face on the act of plagiarism. Too many accept it as a victimless crime but it’s not, as you have shown.
There are too many comments floating around like Led Zep “made it their own”, it was a “tribute” or they were “influenced” by a particular artist. If you steal the Mona LIsa & paint a moustashe on it, does that make it your own? I think not.
Mal.
It is 13 songs out of all the songs Led Zeppelin recorded. Every band has done this and a lot have been sued for it. It is just inspiration so sad that people get so greedy. I’m sorry that Led Zeppelin made your song better than you but if you think that makes them less talented you have issues. There were actually several people that sued that didn’t write the contend Zeppelin used it was actually age old stuff. Music is a gift meant to be shared. So sad people do not treat it this way. Zeppelin would have been huge regardless…..
Robber Plant didn’t have a clue hi was robbing other musicians.
Your article does not report “When the Levee Breaks” was written by Elizabeth Douglass (“Memphis Minnie”) and recorded in 1929. The vocals on the track were by “Kansas” Joe McCoy.
Everyone seems to forget that you can’t really own chord progressions and note sequences. I mean, imagine if the guy that first used the 12 bar progression would be alive today and tried to sue everyone that has ever used the same idea that he had. It’s absurd. I bet most of you never actually composed anything in your life, so you don’t know how it works. You don’t simply just go there and pull an absolutely new thing out of your ass. You take elements of everything you ever listened to and make it, even subconsciously. It’s the way humans work. To create something new, we take previous knowledge of something and work on it. Imagine if Pitagoras would lay claim to the 7 note scale and was alive to sue everyone ever for using his idea. Hahahaha Ridiculous.
They outright stole melodies, riffs and lyrics without credit or payment to the original artists and the list above isn’t even comprehensive. What you decribe is writing a song in a certain genre or style. Not the same thing at all.
Well said, I wish I’d read your comment before I posted
I’m a guitar player influenced by Led Zeppelin. The two that caught my eye are the plagiarism claims of Stairway to Heaven = Taurus by Spirit & Since I’ve Been Loving You = Never by Moby Grape. The 5 descending notes on the d-string of both Stairway & Taurus are similar however the chords are distinctly different. The California camp is grasping at straws and seems to be relying on the other valid claims to bolster their case. Regarding Since I’ve Been Loving You & Never, other than both being blues songs the music is not even remotely similar. Regarding a couple lines in the lyrics please get a handle of reality. And just for a reality check, no one seems to be looking at “influences” on the people making claims against Led Zeppelin. I never hear of any other bands getting accused such BS … please! Did Willie Dixon ever plagiarize?
Led Zeppelin is probably the most influential rock band ever. Just go on a musician website like Bandmix and you will see just about every rock musician cites LZ as an influence. They didn’t have a musician talent issue, they had a crediting issue. They were still the best band ever in history (ok, next to the Beatles). Had they properly acknowledged the songwriters on some of their songs, mostly just for the lyrics, the music they created would been just as great. Most of the time the music was original and awesome on its own and had Plant just written his own words, there would be no doubting the genius of LZ. Plants laziness to do so has unnecessarily damaged the bands reputation. That pisses me off. I mean, I get it, Jimmy definitely plagiarized Dazed and Confused to including the main riff, ideas in the bridge, and even some little licks but had they just put the guys name on the stupid sleeve, the LZ version would be worlds better than the original without all the criticism. People who try to diminish LZ’s musical talent by their lack of crediting the writers is ridiculous. In just about every case of plagairism, the LZ version is worlds better. You can’t tell me the annoying Joan Baez Babe I’m Gonna Leave you is better than Zeps version, I can say this same thing about most of the others.
And….just so everyone who doesn’t know can see, the following is but a small example of epic LZ’ songs that aren’t in question of their originality… Stairway to Heaven (no fucking way is this Spirit), Kashmir, Over the Hills, All My Love, Fool in The Rain, The Rain Song, No Quarter (no way is that April Wine, what a joke, people are really reaching), What is and What Should Never Be, Good Times Bad Times, Ten Years Gone, Hey, Hey What Can I Do, Immigrant Song, Blackdog, The Ocean, The Rover, Houses of the Holy, Going to California, Rock and Roll, In The Light, Heartbreaker, Your Time is Gonna Come, Battle of Evermore, Down By The Seaside, Night Flight, Wanton Song, Ramble On, Dancing Days, Living Loving Maid…ok, you can get the point. All those songs are bad ass and most rock bands would give their first born to have just written one of them.
Had LZ only published these, they would still be an epic rock band. And frankly, most of the the songs that have been deemed plagiarized are still 80% original with plagiarized lyrics by Plant. I know, someone will come back with Black Mountain Side or something, got it. A practically note for note copy but all in all, LZ is an extremely original, iconic, super influential rock band that transformed music forever and are still huge influences for most aspiring rock musicians 50 years later. Zep music is a right of passage for musicians every bit as important as Jimi Hendrix.
It really doesn’t matter one way or the other. Many of these blues artists would have never really been rediscovered if not for the blues revival of the late 50’s to the early 70’s. These blues artists are credited with writing these songs, but most if not all of these blues artists from the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s took their ideas out of songs and influences from generations of black plantation workers or musicians from the 1800’s and early 1900’s. Who did they take their song ideas from without giving proper credited, those should all be public domain, because we have no way of documenting their trail. And as for Taurus, it has also been said that Spirit’s version comes from a Grateful Dead song by Jerry Garcia…so the wheel goes round. For people who want social justice, they think thgis is their passage into political correctness heaven.
90 percent of the “black blues” that everyone goes around virtue signaling about, and all that, were “stolen” from old White folk songs (like Stephen Foster and Civil War Era Celtic-inspired laments), and Protestant “Call and Chant” melodies and rhythms (“Now shake it up baby now..[shake it up baby] Twist and Shout…), or in the case of that old black bluesy song “Hound Dog”, were written by two Jews (Leiber and Stroller).
It has long been a myth that somehow, all these melodies and ideas, and “riffs” originated in the Mississippi Delta by a bunch of bored black dudes sitting around on the porch of a barn bar. EVERY SINGLE blues song was based upon melodies, chord progressions and other music qualities that came from Europe–and European musicians.
Almost every musical convention was created by white Americans or Europeans, and almost certainly were not ever known, created or envisioned by any black American artist or based upon African roots. The very instruments USED were created by Europeans or European descended peoples.
Signed, race card maxed out…
35 years as a musician, drums, guitar, piano and banjo.
Scotty, you are either racist or ignorant. I suspect both. Your ravings are typical of Neo-nazi rhetoric with no basis in the truth. If you spent even 5 minutes researching the blues, you would find the “facts” you claim in your rantings are completely false.
Let’s look at the instruments you claim are of European origin. The guitar has it’s roots in Ancient Egypt & India, the banjo evolved from the lutes of Gambia, the harmonica originated in China. Pretty sure none of those people were white Europeans.
As for the blues being based on music from Europe, you really need to do some research. The roots of the blues came of Central & West Africa, even the call-and-response format that you claim was of Protestant origin, came from Africa (known as Melisma).
Well done Scotty, 35 years as a musician & still no idea about the true history of the music you play.
Ignorance is bliss for some.
“Scotty, you are either racist or ignorant. I suspect both.”
Department of Redundancy Department here, may we help you?
“Racist” is, by definition, also “ignorant” — a fully subsumed subset.
But we can add the following, which is pretty close to universally true:
Almost every racist is a person with no accomplishments, attainments, or value in their own lives — hence their seeking to grab what validation they can for themselves by glomming on to the actual achievements of their ethnic forbears.
They’re to be pitied more than anything else — or at least would be, if their petty grievances, resentments, and hatreds hadn’t been weaponized and deployed in the political realm to elect some of the hateful demagogues (who are now ruining our country) by classic divide-and-conquer strategems.
Giving credit would have been the right thing to do, no matter whose version was “better”.
I’m surprised that When The Levee Breaks was not mentioned. The lyrics and melody were DIRECTLY ripped off from an old blues song by Kansas Joe McCoy and Memphis Minnie of the same name. I love Zep, and this has been very upsetting to me.
…another one not mentioned is Moby Dick, which was stolen, note for note from Bobby Parker’s Watch Your Step, and still another was I Can’t Quit You, which was directly stolen from Willie Dixon’s I Can’t Quit You Baby.
Zeppelin was a great, great band. When they launched it was very much in the vein of Cream, who popularized many standard blues songs, covering them and taking them much further than the originals (spoonful for example), but Cream credited the authors.
Unlike Cream, Zeppelin didn’t really cover the blues songs. They sprinkled them throughout their own compositions for the most part. Maybe that’s why they didn’t credit the authors.
But there is another explanation: MONEY. Page is notoriously a miser which was fully confirmed to me several years ago when I visited his personal website and was stunned to find a “contribution” button to “help cover the cost of the site.” Think about it. Page is one of the richest men in Europe, and the cost of a basic website is almost nothing. Think about how stingy you need to be before you ask for “contributions” when you’re filthy rich.
The chances are that Page just didn’t want to part with the money that would’ve gone to the original authors. I’ve heard Plant speak openly about shamelessly taking from the blues and gospel music he loved, so I don’t think he was trying to conceal a lack of original creativity. Indeed, when I saw Plant touring several years ago, the music that played over the speakers to entertain the audience while they assembled was THE VERY BLUES SONGS ZEPPELIN USED, so he clearly wasn’t trying to hide anything.
I still love Zeppelin, and always will.
Do you have any proof that he is rich, or you’re just assuming?
Yea I’m sure Jimmy Page is broke
Well, many years ago Forbes listed him as one of the richest men in Europe. Several years ago Zeppelin sold their catalog for 25 Million, and I’m sure that Celebration Day netted quite a nice profit. You are correct, based on all of that, and factoring in the many millions they made prior to selling their catalog, I am “assuming” that he is still very well off.
Are you being ironic about I Can’t Quit You Baby – they always credited that to Willie Dixon!
The Moby Dick Intro certainly has similarities to Watch Your Step, but Bobby Parker got that from Manteca by Dizzy Gillespie and has similarities to What’d I Say by Ray Charles. However the key and chord pattern Zeppelin use is different. That being the case, Zeppelin didn’t need to give Parker credit any more than he did Gillespie!
You Mention Cream, and I agree, Spoonful, Rollin’ and Tumblin’ and I’m so Glad on Fresh Cream were pretty much straight covers, far more so than most of Zeppelin’s alleged plagiarised songs.
I think the Taurus/Stairway claim is ridiculous, you can find a video of Davy Graham playing Cry Me a River from 1960 or so which is more like Stairway, and even then only the opening few bars.
The one I don’t get is Dazed and Confused! Jake Holmes got a rough deal on that one.
As I understand it, artists were retroactively credited on Zep 1when the music was re-released. I disagree about Moby. It’s spot on, and if they weren’t legally obliged to credit, there were morally – but many successful bands “borrowed” from earlier artists and didn’t credit.
But that said, “ripped off” or “borrowed” or ” inspired by the originals” Zeppelin took it to a level way above what anyone else did or could’ve, and they wrote many, many great songs without “borrowing” bits and pieces. They were an awesome band.
Cream credited the songwriters.
I just wonder why the folks at Atlantic records didn’t send a memo to Page- while the general public didn’t know these blues artists- surely someone at Atlantic did?
ALL MUSIC has been plagiarized from the cavemen.
Great article. Would of been better if the person who wrote it knew anything about what you can and can not copyright where music is concerned. Most of the time people will hear 2 similar rhythms, and start screaming rip-off, rip-off. LOL You can’t copyright a rhythm. You also can’t copyright a chord progression as well. These 2 things are the core for 75% of the song. You also can’t sue somebody if you run a scale , then someone else plays something running the same scale, or something similar. Wow, I don’t think half these people don’t get that ()% of music are the same chords, scale progressions, rhythms. Zeppelin didn’t rip any guy off, who didn’t play anything that he wasn’t influenced playing listening to others. Especially where the blues are concerned. You seriously think that it was only the guys you have heard of that created the blues? There are tons of popular songs played today that have their origins traced back sometimes more then a hundred years, there are variations of songs played, that their origins are unknown. I got a kick out of the writers list though. If they had any clue, they’d know a few people on that list, wouldn’t be the actual original artists.
Zeppelin has been successfully sued for ripping off whole lotta love (original You Need Love) and has been forced to retroactively credit several other blues artists. They are currently litigating Stairway.
There’s no question that they pushed, and crossed the legal limits of copyright infringement
To claim to be a music fan of any type and then to say music should be created originally is unrealistic. Music In itself has been copied from one artist to another. Their is no music that can be created from a purest point of view. You cannot avoid what inspires you. Every artist is playing the same 7 notes as every other artist the only thing original from a musician is his or her personality they infuse into it. The copywrite was invented so publishers could make more money. This of course is my opinion. Most musicians know and accept the reality that music is inspirational and as such is subject to be infused Into their works. Reality is the only original artist are the ones that first walked the earth. Everyone else is a copy. See simulacra and simulation. I’m not defending anyone who deliberately does it I am saying that musicians have borrowed from other musicians because those other musicians inspired them in such a way that they either became musician or were inspired to creat a song from the source that affected them. If you want to know what copywrite laws do. Turn on the radio and listen to the music we have now.
Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones were already savvy studio players well befor LZ. Page in particular was ambitious and not afraid to go for his goals. He had the ears to be an effective producer for what they did and as such, he was well aware of what he was doing. He also has a massive vinyl collection that includes these “obscure” recordings. They certainly weren’t obscure to him. Putting massive over production on an old blues song doesn’t make it original. Getting Bonham to poud away like a heard of stampeding wildebeasts and Plant to shriek like he’s accidentally zipped up too quickly also doen’t make for original content by just putting them on an Howlin’ Wolf or Willie Dixon song. Page took the spine out of the Yardbirds, exploited what he could from the name and set sail on a pirate’s course of raiding and stealing material he hoped would go right past the ears of the teen fans and stashed the gold for his old age.
The radio station I was listening to today, 94.9 San Diego, played the beginning of a song that was written 400 and some years ago, that sounded just like the start of Stairway to Heaven. Jimmy Plage took a lot of liberties in claiming writing credits. Did he think nobody would notice or care?
Glad to hear about this. But who are these ‘musicians’ on here who are claiming with such great authority that this so clearly amounts to theft? Do they really have no idea how basic this is? Hopefully they don’t play the guitar. But even if Led Zeppelin deliberately ripped this chord sequence, it shouldn’t even matter in that case. It’s not like this was some kind of special discovery that had a distinct meaning in Taurus. There is nothing here that should be protected by copyright; if this kind of thing was, then the precedent would be stepping into the bounds of ridiculously stifling creativity, not protecting it. It would be taking a step closer to allowing someone to maybe claim ownership of the C major chord.
Honestly though, it’s more than just a chord progression. It’s really the heart of the song, and the song is one of their two signature songs – the other being Whole Lotta Love, for which they were also sued.
They were the greatest band ever, and they took these ideas to heights that nobody else could, but they should’ve given credit.
They weren’t found liable for Stairway, but they should’ve been. Because of how the copy write was filed, the jury couldn’t actually hear the recorded songs. THey could only hear musicians for both sides play it. The defense played it on a piano, not a guitar, and played it in a way that masked the clear similarities – which is easy to do. Had the jury heard the actual recording of Taurus, they likely would’ve found Page liable.
Let’s not forget: John Fogerty stood trial for plagiarizing himself.
That was just a spiteful record company harassing Fogerty. also, don’t forget that Geffin records sued Neil Young for NOT sounding like himself. They didn’t like the style he began experimenting with, so they sued him.
But Zep really did rip off a lot of their stuff. Their music still sounds incredible, but they have lost a bit of my admiration. They weren’t as creative as I thought. Nonetheless, they were great.
I did not see that they also blatantly stole 4xs from Willie Dixon the man who created Muddy Waters, the impetus for the formation of The Rolling mfg Stones…Who does THAT?? Page does! What about Little Richard’s “Keep A-Knockin”& Led Plagiarism’s,”Rock n Roll”? Or, Eddie Cochran’s “Nervous Breakdown” & Led Zep “Communication Breakdown”? Robert Johnson, the Mississippi Delta bluesman who’s life eerily parallels the rise & fall of the members of the group wrote , “Traveling Riverside Blues” which is a blatant thievery as is, “The Lemon Song” lyrics for which Johnson sang. Memphis Minnie’s, “When the Levee Breaks”? My mfg favorite of the whole thing … Actually, 2 things.#1) their DEBUT LP, “Led Zeppelin I ” was correct…Of the 9 tracks only 1 song was originally composed by them! #2) “How Many More Times” …Can a song be plagiarized? 4 X’s to be exact … 1. Howlin’Wolf “How Many More Years” 2. The Yardbirds”Smokestack Lighting” 3.
It’s obvious Zep borrowed heavily from blues sources and should have given more credit to those sources than they did. The Stairway riff however, is just an arpeggiated walk down that gets recycled all the time and I don’t think it is copy writable.
i just listened to the song “gallow pole by a blues man named “Odessa” i believe he was before leadbelly———all the words are right from Zeps song “gallows pole”
if some or any of this is true i dont see why someone dont get all the living relatives of these blues singers a good lawyer and take this robbing criminal-robert plant to court and hit him where it hurts for these issues
It was a blues WOMAN and her name is ODETTA. And no, she had recorded the song in the beginning of the sixties, so after Leadbelly.
The words are different form the zep version, but the same as Leadbelly’s version (Gallis Pole, he named it). Gallow’s Pole is actually a song from the middle ages, known all over Europe as “The maid freed from the gallows”. Leadbelly didn’t write the song, nor did Fred Garlach.
The thing that is true is that if you had taken the trouble to take a look at the album sleeve, you would find that it says “traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page and Robert Plant”.
I guess you owe Robert Plant an apology…
I do NOT wish to “weigh in” on the extent to which Led Zeppelin plagiarized from other musicians & recording artists. I’m no “expert” on LZ, and won’t pose as an expert on the music that influenced them (or–if you prefer–that they used for source material/copied).
I will share the following two thoughts (make of them what you will):
“The greatness of any artist can be determined by the greatness of the artists who taught or influenced him/her.” (unattributed)
“People say I was INFLUENCED by Mozart. NONSENSE!
I STOLE from Mozart. – Igor Stravinsky